THE June 13, 1980 car bomb-blast death of well-known politician and historian Dr. Walter Rodney has been thrown into prominence again with the recent surfacing of Gregory Smith in Cayenne, French Guiana.
Smith was named by Walter’s brother Donald as the man who supplied a ‘walkie-talkie’ which exploded and killed Dr. Rodney, a co-founder of the opposition Working People’s Alliance (WPA).
As part of its probe to determine the circumstances of Dr. Rodney’s death, ‘Stabroek News’ reporter Sharief Khan interviewed Gregory Smith in Cayenne by telephone from Georgetown, and we will be following up the story.
This is Mr. Khan’s interview with Gregory Smith, also known as William Smith and Cyril Johnson.
Smith said he was Cyril Johnson.
SK: “We have heard about an interview that you gave to CANA Radio two weeks ago in which you said you were the Gregory Smith that has been implicated or allegedly involved in the death of Dr. Rodney in 1980.”
Smith: “Yes and no… William is the name… William is the correct name.” (Smith went on here to explain that the name Gregory Smith was his ‘call’ name and that his correct name is William Smith).
SK: “So to get it clearly, are you the person who spoke with the CANA Radio?”
GS: “That’s right.”
SK: “Did you in fact say that you were the Gregory Smith that was allegedly involved or implicated in the death of Dr. Rodney?”
GS: “Ah… (pause) ..I don’t like the words that you are using.”
SK: “Well, how would you like to put it then?”
GS: “OK. Ah…involved in the accident.”
SK: “Involved in the accident which resulted in the death of Dr. Rodney?”
GS: “OK. Fine.”
SK: “Would you like to elaborate on what you meant or what you mean by an accident? Could you expand on that for me?”
GS: ‘Ah… (pause) …
Look…It is very, very difficult…to…to explain… the truth is that we were engaged in… you can say rebellious activities. (Rodney and I) and a lot of other people and I am the only one who seems to be left in it. The point is I have decided not to talk to anybody else unless,..if you can get hold of copies of the statement that Donald (Rodney) used when the incident occurred, then I will be able to tell you, as you read it to me, I shall be able to fill the irregularities
SK: “I don’t have the statement but I remember seeing it since 1980 and in that statement, he said that on the night in question he uplifted something in a brown paper bag from your home in Russell Street and that was the thing that exploded, killing Dr. Rodney. Did you in fact give him something for Dr. Rodney?”
GS: “What thing did he say it was?”
SK: “He said it was a ‘walkie-talkie’.
GS: “OK. Fine that he had given me to repair?”
SK: “No. That you had made.”
GS: (Sounding surprised). “Made?”
SK: “Yes – made… manufactured.”
GS: “I think I must have gotten it wrong or you must have got it wrong.”
SK: “What basically is your side of the story of whatever might have happened?”
GS: “1 was given the task of modifying a ‘walkie-talkie’ to trigger these devices. All the equipment was given to me by the people concerned.”
SK: “Would you like to name those people?”
INVOLVED
GS: “At this point in time I would say it was given to me by Donald and Walter. Other people were involved but so far, as far as I know… anyway, I don’t want to implicate these people. “
SK: “So you would prefer not to name them apart from Donald and Dr. Rodney at this time?”
GS: “That’s right.”
SK: “OK. So you are saying that it was a ‘walkie-talkie’ that they gave you to be modified?”
GS: “Of course”
SK: “Do you have any explanation on why that thing exploded? If Donald’s statement is true?”
GS: “Maybe it exploded because they did not adhere to instructions.”
SK: “What kind of instructions did you give them’?”
GS: “Instructions as to safeguard themselves…whoever is doing the installation.”
SK: “So you are saying that you gave them this thing and they were supposed to have installed it somewhere?”
GS: “That’s right.”
SK: “Do you know where they were supposed to have installed it?”
GS: ‘What I was told is that they have to disrupt some telecommunication equipment to stop communication.
You know these junction boxes on the road that they use to connect the telephone lines? I was told that they had to disrupt a few of them.
SK: “You are saying it exploded because they failed to carry out your instructions.”
CIS “1 suppose so. I can’t say for sure. It could (have gone) off for a number of other reasons.”
SK: “How old are you?”
GS: “I was born on June 5, 1946.”
SK: “What have you been doing since you left Guyana?”
GS: “Working.”
SK: “Have you ever been back to Guyana since you left?”
GS: “Ah (long pause) 1 would prefer to leave that alone.”
SK: “On what date did you leave Guyana?”
GS: “On the 7th of July” (1980).
SK: “Did you leave from Kwakwani by army helicopter?”
GS: “1 did not.”
SK: “How did you leave? Would you care to say?”
GS: (Chuckling). “When the time comes I would say.”
SK: “Which brings me to the other question …Would you be prepared, if requested, or if asked to do so by the Guyana Police, to come back to Guyana to testify at any inquiry into what happened?”
TREASON
GS: “Man, 1 have to evade this. I’ll tell you why. Because of being in the armed services, regardless of being untrained, being just a technician; it doesn’t matter what – the moment you lift a finger against the government that you swear to protect (it could be termed) treason. Isn’t this so? Do you know what is the penalty for treason?”
SK: “It’s death.”
GS: “Of course.”
SK: “So you are saying you might be charged for treason if you come back?”
GS: “They ain’t got no might about that. Let me tell you something. I joined that service and was badly treated.”
SK: “Which service? Is this the GDF?”
GS: “Of course…I joined as a private in 1975.”
SK: “When did you leave the service?”
GS: “Hold on, hold on. At the end of that year, they made me a Lance Corporal. I went to England to study electronics and they made me an acting corporal. I came back and I was asked to construct a unit for them… for the army …the unit would have cost them a bundle. After this unit was finished, after working day and night by myself, day and night, coffee and cigarettes…I worked, I worked, 1 worked. When it was finally completed, my boss was patted on the shoulder and told what a fine job he had done. During that time they called all the brass to look at this unit. I was standing at the door and all I kept doing was saluting. When that was done, six months after they made me an acting sergeant.
That was a joke — a complete joke. You can check it out.”
SK: “What kind of unit was that?”
MOTIVATED
GS: “It was a sort of surveillance unit. I would not go into details because that would put me…anyway you can’t go deeper than you are…but that’s the way the army goes – they take you in, they promise you a whole load of crap and then they keep pushing you around, you can’t get promotion because you don’t have the party card. (They tell you) you better go and join the party, you can’t (become) an officer because you are not politically motivated a whole heap of rubbish.”
SK: “What was your number in the army when you left?”
GS: “4141.”
SK: “When did you leave the army?”
GS: “That is another story again. You can say that I was rebellious, I was wayward because of the treatment that was handed out to me. I (went to work) when I felt like it (and 1 had hoped this would have allowed them) to bust me and throw me out. Nobody bothered, so why should I have bothered?”
SK: “At the time you left were you stationed at the Marine Wing at Ruimveldt?”
GS: “You can’t say stationed because I wasn’t there. But I worked there.”
SK: “You said you studied electronics in England. Who sent you there?”
GS: “The army did.”
SK: “What year was that?”
GS: “The very next year, six months after I joined.”
SK: “Did you ever go to North Korea on behalf of the army?”
GS: “No. I never went.”
SK: “Did you at one time live with Gwendoline Jones at 40 Russell Street?”
GS: “Yes, you can say that.”
SK: “Did you have a telephone number 53622 installed at that home?”
GS: “Yes, you can say that.”
SK: “Did you go through the normal channels of applying to Telecoms to get that number or did anybody help you to get that number?”
GS: “As a matter of fact I did not apply for that number. The lady did, and she got it.”
SK: “Did you in fact have tape-recording equipment attached to that telephone?”
GS: (A long pause). “Well, you can say yes, because, as it is, (because) of what 1 was engaged in I could not have run the risk of people taking messages for me when “I am not there.”
SK: “Would you care to say what business were you engaged in?”
OVERTHROW
GS: “I was involved in a system to overthrow the Guyana Government that been pissing on the people’s heads for the longest while. You can write it just as it is. I just fed up of going round and round and round.
You see I don’t want to implicate some decent people in this whole business. To be going round and round is wasting time:
Look, there was a plot to overthrow the Govern-ment. There was an accident and everybody run. Everybody just run and hide like old women. A bunch of .. — ass revolutionists you got. They prefer to see their children roaming the streets hustling. They prefer to remain failing to make ends meet.
