A VICE News programme yesterday maintained that there were serious grounds for concern about inducements offered by Chinese companies here and Vice President Bharrat Jagdeo vowed to sue his tenant and businessman Su Zhirong for statements in the broadcast suggesting that he (Jagdeo) took bribes.
The programme titled ‘Guyana for Sale’ could influence the country’s image abroad given the wide reach of the Showtime channel it was aired on and therefore poses a problem for the government here. There was no statement from the government yesterday on it.
Jagdeo told Stabroek News yesterday that Su will have to immediately vacate the premises that he currently rents.
This newspaper understands that Su has not occupied the residence since mid-February, shortly after Jagdeo had uploaded the interview done with US agency, VICE News but his rent has been paid up to May 31st 2022.
After Jagdeo had published on February 7th 2022 the interview that he had done with VICE News and in which it was stated that Su had made the allegations against him, Su denied that he had accused Jagdeo of corruption. However, in the programme broadcast yesterday, Su is heard alleging that monies are paid to Jagdeo.
“He had said that VICE News lied on him and had issued a statement [to this effect]. Now that they have him on record as though he was doing this, that he claimed he was not doing, that means he has abused the access and friendship he had with me to rip people off. So I am going to take legal action against him, because he is damaging my reputation in doing (so) and also he will no longer, as I had said in the past when you had asked me about it, he will no longer be a tenant,” Jagdeo told Stabroek News when contacted after the programme was aired yesterday.
In the programme seen by this newspaper, Su whose rented home is next door to Jagdeo’s in Pradoville 2, took a VICE News undercover `businessman’ who went by the name of Mr. Chan to meet the Vice President.
According to VICE, the act was done to prove to the undercover potential Chinese businessman that “he (Su) has access at the highest level”.
However, Jagdeo yesterday contended that the show did not give full insight into the meeting, as when Su called it was to ask if he [Su] could bring over the investor and potential partner that he was entering into an investment agreement with.
Jagdeo said that during the meeting, Chan stated that he wanted to invest in projects in Guyana and wanted to discuss those but Jagdeo said he made it clear that he [Jagdeo] did not want to.
The VICE programme begins with journalist Isobel Yeung, who interviewed Jagdeo on February 1st, giving an overview that Guyana was one of the fastest growing economies in the world but there were allegations of rampant corruption.
The programme then continues with Yeung saying that they were undercover with business elites at a country retreat. The location appears to be somewhere on the Demerara River. A man plays with a dog, others peel coconuts for drinking while another aims what appears to be a high-powered gun, possibly for practice shooting.
The entire conversation is in Mandarin Chinese.
“Everything is under the table,” a Chinese man says while another adds, “the whole country is like that”.
Another one laughs and says “It would be more worrying if they weren’t corrupt.”
Yeung asks if connections are most important in doing business here and one of the persons tells her “No, money.”
Yeung then points out to the audience that the VICE team had been in Guyana for weeks, “infiltrating networks with links to China”.
Noted was that China, “the world’s second biggest superpower has a rapidly growing presence in Guyana” with much of it attributed to infrastructural projects, given that China has become the largest funder of development globally.
Referring to China’s ‘Belt and Road Initiative’ which caters for funding in some 150 countries, the journalist posits that it is “a massive infrastructure pushed by China to bring development funding and soft power influence around the globe.”
She notes that as China expands into South America, the United States sees the growing presence as a threat. “This is a region where America has long held political and regional dominance,” she notes.
US President Joe Biden is reported on the programme saying that, “China has an overall goal to become the wealthiest country in the world and the most powerful country in the world” but “that’s not going to happen on my watch.”
Superpowers
Yeung then says it is believed that Guyana has been trying to “keep both superpowers happy”.
Clips show that VICE not only visited the coastland but Guyana’s hinterland.
During a flyover of the hinterland, Yeung points out a waterfall saying that the Chinese were building a massive hydroelectric power plant.
The project referred to is the controversy-ridden Amaila Falls Hydropower project which government had announced that China Railway Group Limited had won a tender to build.
Yeung then says that sources pointed out that the only way that was won was “because of a very sizeable bribe.”
Last month government announced that China Railway Group Limited (CRGL) had written to the government requesting that it consider a different model of financing and the project may now require retendering.
Yeung said that to find out whether the highest levels of Guyana’s government was involved in corrupt deals it went undercover. “My colleague, who we will call Mr. Chan posed as a Chinese businessman looking to invest in Guyana. I posed as his secretary,” Yeung said.
Outside the doors of a private dining room of the New Thriving Restaurant on the East Bank of Demerara, Yeung whispers into the camera that they had only been with the Chinese businessmen for “literally a few hours” and they were already told that if they invest here they could help them out with the business, given their excellent relationships “with the heads of state of this country”.
Jagdeo is then mentioned as arguably the most powerful politician here, since he still “pulls huge political weight” and that Su’s name was put to them as the person who could get them into a room with Jagdeo.
The meeting with Su occurs on the second floor of a huge concrete and steel building that is under construction. “If you want to get anything done in Guyana and you need some connections, you tell me. It should be no problem. I am very close with the Vice President and other officials,” Su is heard bragging.
Su refers to Jagdeo as his boss. When asked how much the operative would have to pay, Su said, “Mr. Chan, we will split the amount with the boss.”
He told the operatives that “If we are going to do business, my boss is not going to receive the money directly.” Su said the money will be referred to as a “service fee” and then said his boss will split the proceeds with him.
Yeung said that Su is not the only person that tells them that the “service fee” middlemen like Su take for bribes are huge amounts, as they show another interview with a man said to be the General Manager of one of China’s largest construction firms. “The middlemen play a crucial role. With just one word they can get something done,” the General Manager says in Mandarin.
Yeung also pointed out that Su showed them documents of businesses of his and others that he played a role in sealing, including a large road project.
Su also had correspondence relating to the Amaila Falls project.
The deal was presented as the most lucrative was land in a prime location where a hotel and casino could be built. VICE agreed that that would be the deal, Yeung said.
Su is asked about the money to be given to Jagdeo and he says that once the money is in Guyana he would give Jagdeo the cash. “The Vice President finds this the easiest and most convenient. With these procedures, no one can pick up on us,” he says.
It was then Su took Chan to Jagdeo. Chan asks Jagdeo if he understood the deal he [Chan] has with Su, “in detail” and Jagdeo replies “No, no, no. I am not getting involved in business. You will get the support. Su is my friend, he gets all the support. He deals with all the agreements. I don’t. I don’t,” Jagdeo replies.
“The thing is I am in government so I assist from government’s side. That is it,” Jagdeo adds.
“I know. I know. I understand,” Chan says.
Su then interjects in Mandarin saying that it was not the place to talk about the bribes. “You can just talk to me about these things,” Su said, with the VICE undercover person replying, also in Mandarin, that while they knew that, they needed to know that Jagdeo will get the money Su has asked for.
“I have to know the money is going to him,” the interpreter reports Chan as saying.
Su assures him, “I will give him the money with you.”
While they were leaving Jagdeo’s residence, the duo continue conversing in Mandarin with Su saying that Jagdeo’s hands are “very clean” and that “Other amounts of money before this have been much bigger”. According to Su, the hydroelectric plant deal would have seen them getting tens of millions of dollars. “He had me handle those. He would never admit that he is involved in this,” Su said.
He also said that Jagdeo shared some of the money with him. Jagdeo has vehemently denied involvement in any such transactions.
China’s heavy involvement and influence here was also referred to in this country’s decision to roll back an announcement last year by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that a Taiwan office was being set up here.
Yeung said it was told by its sources in the Chinese Embassy here that the reason was “because of Chinese funding”.
Yeung said sources told them last year that China lent Guyana US$1.5B at a low interest rate and that it wasn’t until months after it had heard this that it was reported here.
Stabroek News had reported in October 2021 that government was in talks with China to lend it US$1.5B.
In concluding the programme, Yeung said that even as Guyana’s economy expands, its citizens are left questioning deals that would impact them and “who gets to buy their country and for what price”. She noted that there was no known investigation of the claims that had been raised by her in the February 1 interview with Jagdeo.
Vice President Bharrat Jagdeo at his home during the meeting with Su Zhirong and the VICE undercover businessman
Transcript of section of interview between Vice-President Bharrat Jagdeo and Vice Media Group on February 1st
Interviewer: What about within your Government, do you accept bribes?
Jagdeo: No, I don’t.
Interviewer: We have spoken to a number of Chinese business people in Guyana who said you do accept bribes. And they said in fact it’s the only way to get business done is to bribe you. One Chinese business person we have spoken (to) involved in timber logging said that basically as long as the Vice-President is okay with it it’s fine. He just need to give one phone call to whoever is in charge and they will get it done right away. The real big boss is the Vice-President and everything is under the table the whole country is like this.
Jagdeo: Yeah, well I can’t comment on that because it would be an anonymous person. You can just sit there and fabricate that. As I said before a lot of the companies and reporters (interrupted by the interviewer) but no if you name the person that’s fine. I can, any, well the reporters come from abroad this is their catch you kind of thing. They always want to make a developing country leader look corrupt. So you have done your bit, unless you say who the person is I can’t comment on anonymous people. I can say two persons told me before this interview, don’t do the interview with Vice News because that is precisely what they would do (interviewer speaking inaudibly) they would fabricate something and come and say they spoke with people here.
Interviewer: But we are not fabricating anything…
Jagdeo: Let me tell you something so all my statements are in with the Integrity Commission, the last Government they checked everything about me and they didn’t find anything. They checked my bank accounts abroad, they checked everything, they didn’t find anything. So there has to be the evidence of it, but you are not bringing evidence, you are saying an anonymous Chinese source (interrupted inaudibly again by interviewer) maybe the Chinese company that did not get the agreement that they wanted here, maybe there are the ones who told you. Or it could just be a fictitious thing.
Interviewer: Okay so let’s talk about this specific individual, what is your relationship with Mr. Su Zhirong.
Jagdeo: Oh Su? My relationship? Nothing, he is a tenant in my place yes.
Interviewer: And he is a friend of yours?
Jagdeo: Yes, am yes, yes he is a friend of ours, his father was here from many years ago.
Interviewer: He lives next door to you.
Jagdeo: Yes
Interviewer: He is able to arrange meetings and catch ups with you at any point of the day, he claims…
Jagdeo: As a friend, yes.
Interviewer: He claims that he has a very close relationship with you, he is able to get any deal done.
Jagdeo: Well, I don’t know if that…
Interviewer: And get you to change laws for investors.
Jagdeo: Then which law has been changed for any investor?
Interviewer: Su told us that if you want to get anything done in Guyana you need some hook ups, I am very close with the Vice-President and other officials. The Vice-President and I share a very close relationship, also you do the business he would help out no matter what. No one else can help like he does. He also said when he is talking about when he is talking to prospective investors the Vice-President said he can change the constitution, he said he can manage… everything is going to be done soon, he is treating us as brothers, he has already changed to help us as much as possible of course you have to give back to him in return.
Jagdeo: Yeah, but that is, I don’t know about giving back but I would do that to anybody who comes to my office. The American companies come here to see me and they have meetings. You asked to see me and I have an open door policy since I was President so people come to see me. But I have had a long history of being in public office and we have never, [had] any of this stuff you are talking about and all of my accounts are clear. If you are coming here with specifics, so I just heard what you read and that is totally accurate. I help as many people as I can, that is totally accurate what you read there. Unbelievably accurate, it’s accurate. So I help people out but it doesn’t mean for consideration, it does not mean for bribe because I believe we have a mission to help as many people as possible move forward in this country.
Interviewer: Well Su also told us that the amount will be divided between the Vice-President, it is going to be for service or processing fee…
Jagdeo: Oh really…
Interviewer: If we are going to do business together my boss is not going to directly take the money, obviously he is not going to transfer the money to him, the service charge in total is not for only me most of it is for the Vice-President. Do you need middlemen like Su in order to take money…so you can keep your hands free?
Jagdeo: (Shaking head) No, the answer is no.
Interviewer: Why do you think Su will say this?
Jagdeo: I don’t know, you would have to ask him.
Interviewer: He is saying…as he understands it from his stance that’s the truth.
Jagdeo: Well that is as he understands it so that’s why you will have to ask him but the answer is no.
Interviewer: So why do you think he is saying this to us?
Jagdeo: (Shrugging shoulders) I don’t know, I don’t know why don’t you ask him about that.
Interviewer: He is saying…
Jagdeo: Yeah but I have said to you that I don’t know (interviewer speaking inaudibly). If you are hoping (speaking louder) if you are hoping
Interviewer: This is how it works
Jagdeo: If you are hoping (interviewer speaking again inaudibly) yes if you are hoping to again drag me into this catch-me-you-know I got you there. I told you already no and I told you what you said what you read the part from the beginning part and that’s pretty accurate. That I help a lot of people who come here. A ton of people call me about getting this interview with you, people that I don’t even know and I left the Parliament building because I came here for it. It doesn’t, they, it doesn’t mean it is for consideration. I do help a lot of people so if you are looking to catch another, you have to get more details you have to get more details, you have to come with evidence. This is all hearsay, in this country you could say anything, you could say anything, it’s all hearsay.
Interviewer: So you are saying Mr Su, your close friend who lives next door to you, who meets up with you at any point of the day he needs to is lying?
Jagdeo: Yes, if he told you that, if he told you that but I am not saying that he told you that.
Interviewer: So you are saying we are lying?
Jagdeo: You could possibly be but I don’t know but if he told you that it is not true.
Interviewer: Su has shown us very lucrative contracts between himself and Chinese state run corporations to develop big infrastructure projects in Guyana. He told us that China State Construction Engineering construction they help the Chinese companies to make a deal. For now they pay me $500,000, it is not for…it is for my boss the Vice-President.
Jagdeo: China State what?
Interviewer: China State, it is the China state construction engineering…
Jagdeo: Who is? Which company? I don’t even know what construction…
Interviewer: China State, one of the big construction companies involved
Jagdeo: In oil?
Interviewer: No in construction, in building construction
Jagdeo: But I can’t comment because it is not true again. It is not true…
Interviewer: We have seen, you know he is someone, he is an agent, he is someone who negotiates contracts for foreign companies coming into this country.
Jagdeo: Yeah I, but it is not true I so I don’t, I don’t know. You asking me to comment on someone whose business basically I don’t know about, I don’t get involved with him beyond the pleasantries and all of that. So how could I comment, it is not reasonable to ask me to comment on something I don’t know about and I am assuming is false.
Interviewer: So you don’t know how Su makes his money?
Jagdeo: (Opens a bottle of water and drinks). I don’t know how he makes his money. There are a lot of people, lobbyist and stuff like that that are here. But if you check our policy making you will see it’s clear.
Interviewer: We met with a manager from a Chinese state run corporation who confirmed that they use individuals like Su in order to get these deals done and they pay consulting fees which essentially serves as a bribe for officials like you.
Jagdeo: Well I don’t know because again that’s all, you are building everything what you have met and what people told you, I don’t know, I can’t comment on some anonymous manager now telling you something.
Interviewer: I mean these…(inaudible) have business interests in this country
Jagdeo: (Speaking loudly) But why do you want me
Interviewer: There are so many people who are telling us that that’s the way deals get done… (Inaudible)
Jagdeo: Speaking loudly again. Yeah but don’t you know it’s a typical thing that every report that comes from abroad you had to come here to try to prove somebody corrupt right? You are going to do well if you go back (interviewer speaking inaudibly) and broadcast this but I am not…I am not going to fall into this by getting worked up or anything like that. I know its fabrication either from the persons or induced by you so to fulfill your mandate when you come here you have to ensure that somebody looks corrupt. That’s your mandate.
